Ideas, common sense, and Asian American Literature
King— maybe an Africa equal on the world stage to the West IS what is required. I for one, would not object to that. And also, in terms of belief-changing, image control — whatever can be done by Asian American activism and media change, seems to already have been done. We are at maximum capacity already. Like I posted above:.
King, it is also amusing that you think racism is a natual, innate belief without any other source or form of causality.
Have you ever considered the possibility that racism is a tool for resource acquisition? There is a room with 20 people, and there are 10 slices of pizza lying on a table. And, in this particularly fucked up multiverse, each one of these men need to eat a whole slice of pizza to survive — there can be no splitting. One particularly crafty individual gets together with 9 of his buddies and hands out flags. These flags were arbitrarily picked up a moment ago. You see, the flag has no meaning in itself.
But by arbitrarily infusing meaning into these 99 cent flags, there is now a source to justify getting more resources for oneself. Likewise, there is no real meaning in skin color. But it is a tool, a most convenient tool, to justify acquiring more from one group as opposed to another. This is the basis of Western hegemony, and its zero-sum nature.
And this is the basis of racism. Hate to break it to you, bro-ham, but the world IS being led by the West at the moment. Like other countries occupied and influenced by western imperialism, Japan, HK, Taiwan Singapore, Philippines, theres that odd paradox between massive white-worshipping and hardcore nationalism to different degrees. China is slightly different IMO in that its colonisation or western adulation is coming from Hollywood movies and tech, and so is more voluntary, and therefore needs to be DE?
Its a lot of work, but thanks to online media, its easier to do that. Anyway I agree with your points. Thanks for clarifying IndieKing. So it should be win-win. I want to ask you how do Black guys get to have more social status than Asian guys?
A polished Black guy who walks into a room full of Whites, and if you will, White women, receives a lot more attention than an Asian guy on the same level. This should answer your question. His whole MO is to argue the opposite of what you say. Not saying I agree with you on your posts about Asian Americans and whites but Chr, if you read his past posts believes Asian guys are the biggest losers and ugliest people in the world and there is no solution.
Not sure why Chr argues at all about the Asian Disparity when all he cares about is dating white girls. He wishes he can date Brett Butler looking type bottom of the barrel white girls. And Chr, what cache do Black guys have with Asian women? Rarely do I ever see an Asian women or man dating a black. This completely throws your Blacks are better looking than Asian guys bullshit out the window which is what you really want to say but those posts are probably getting deleted by bigwowo.
Can help organize website design, editing digitised footage amateur ,and writing articles in my spare time. According to the Pew Study, in regards to IR unions and income levels, Asian men and White women married couples have the highest income. Who had the most money of these?
Couples in which the husband is Asian and the wife is white. Furthermore, more whites who married Asians had college degrees than whites who married whites. Looks of course is not enough for the Asian guy, as he also needs to be financially successful in order to garner any attention from White girls. From my personal experiences, there are lots of average-looking Asian guys with average-looking White girls. This is a general question for all: How do you think sexism in Asia should be dealt with?
Nope, every real problem stemming from the White Male Patriarchy needs to be blamed on… Asian American dudes. However, I do understand that the situation is different in Asia. Countries like Korea and Japan are economically and technologically advanced, but they do rank very poorly among OECD countries in terms of gender equality. Men work long hours, forcing women to completely take over domestic duties.
Asian corporate culture is also heaving on drinking and soliciting prostitutes although this can be said for, say, Wall Street culture as well. Things are generally much more constrictive for women in Asia than in America. So how do we as Asian men fight against this? Pozhal, we can do all those things eventually, but fundamentally we need to establish an economic presence in Asia before we can do anything at all. There is an economic war going on right now, and we need to fashion ourselves into a unit to fight against Western hegemony.
Many of those guys are probably doing OK now, granted they are married with kids. So once again, whatever you said holds no water in the grander scheme of things, just old grievances coming from young men which eventually fizzled out, only to be rehashed by the next group of young guys. To be fair, I ideally believe that Asians should just go back and rebuild their own communities.
In this way, they would be the happiest, free from identity problems. This I have said previously, only to be criticized by others here. Whatever you continue to say, is a repeat going forward. Western hegemony has never been discussed before.
Hiergamy has not been discussed before. Seems like a reasonably good answer. There is a whole world of opportunity out there to assist Asia.
I highly doubt, Chr, that this is a repeat, because back then Asia was not going through the tremendous economic resurgence it is going through now.
Anyone who wants to truly combat IR disparity and the inherent racism that follows it should be using their talents to build a life in Asia, not waste their talents here in the United States. Life in the USA is basically a dead end. Of course people would afraid to work towards a solution. Asian Americans are always suspected of being traitorous FOBs unless proven otherwise.
Any talk of narrowing the gap between East and West would likely be interpreted as wanting another Pearl Harbor or something. The last thing Asian girls who like Asian men want is to have to compete with Blondie for the best Asian men. I have to agree with King. It has been discussed since Frank Chin and probably before that, which means that the discussion about Western hegemony and IR is older than me, and probably older than you too.
You would basically be supporting countries which you know little about against a country where you were born and raised, even though your ancestors may come from that other country.
Perhaps you might want to check out the one with ChineseMom:. ChineseMom went to the top university in all of China, and she herself sees value in the American system over the Chinese system. One dude was THE top student in his entire province of 65 million people.
To put that in perspective, if you took EIGHT New York Cities and put them next to each other, all five boroughs included, he was the top 1 student in a place with that population. Yet he moved here because he felt it was a better life and that there were more opportunities. Many of his classmates—also potential BSDs—did the same.
That has to tell you something. Otherwise, the only patriotic Americans would be the extreme American warhawks who just see other countries as obstacles in the way of perpetual American dominance.
I do agree the fine line is often hard to distinguish. I have lived in Asia before, and so I know that it is quite possible to fashion a life abroad, and that it is better. Yes, before Asia has had major issues, but many of them are improving, and I feel as though life can be comfortable there. And if we are talking about IR disparity, which you agreed with me is due to disparity, the whole premise of resolving the IR disparity is shifting wealth away from the USA.
The dynamic between Asia and the USA, and the global competition for wealth is zero-sum. If you really want to combat IR disparity, this is the long, arduous path to do so.
To create supra-national Asian Americans loyal to their ethnic homelands. I do believe the desire that Asian countries have to acquire things from America are there.
We can act as the conduit to provide these countries these things by using our American know-how and citizenship to help them access places where they might find difficult. There is a niche for us, but I look around and I do not see Asian Americans utilizing it. Instead they are wasting their lives in America with no long term future, other than inevitable cultural confusion and self-hate associated with being a minority.
Again, I know what it is to live like part of a majority. Once you live in Asia for a while, once you are able to speak the language a bit and live abroad, you might just realize how amazing it can be. And how worthless life in America is in contrast. Big Wowo, have you ever lived abroad? Can you speak by experience that you would rather live in the USA than Asia? I have lived in both places, and I have made my decision. Life in America is nothing without full societal and dating acceptance, which is something America will not give us.
I have no qualms with working against the USA. Asians have been here for years in the USA, and are still pandering for the same scraps of dignity they wish they had years ago. The few 3rd, 4th gen Asian-Americans I meet are just as confused, aimless, and accepting of their subservient condition — America does not recognize them any more than they did before. I know there is a better life out there, and that we can create it if we form an identity.
But the fact that you still want to harbor some kind of loyalty for the very country that denies you full acceptance is baffling to me. Big Wowo, allow me to clarify my position. Again, though I recognize my tone and my language can be extreme and inflammatory at times, what needs to be done is very simple — create opportunities abroad, get more in touch with the culture and language full Asian-reassimilation not needed, just be yourself , and be loyal to your ethnic Asian country.
An analogous relationship would be how many Jewish-Americans move back to Israel to help build that country. Most of the Asians that come to America are here to escape poverty.
The point is, if Asia were richer many of them would not seek to come here at all. Asia values our talents acquired here in America, and America is the tool for us to acquire them. Also, with respect to your past podcasts, maybe you should consider who is saying these things and in what context. Openly speaking out and living a life of defiance is not what many people are willing to do.
Through anonymity we can express our true, unfiltered sentiments. I highly doubt anyone you interview would start castigating the United States. I do regret letting my personal feelings about how much I hate the IR disparity get in the way of the more constructive dynamic of this post.
The part where we were discussing creating new videos discussing life in Asia with Asian American speakers could probably do more for us than expressing hatred towards IR disparity and what I perceive to be a symptom of hoarding of power by the West.
Maybe we need to expose more Asian Americans about life in Asia, as an Asian American, and give them the tools to make a decision themselves. Sorry, but as an Asian American who has lived abroad, I sometimes assume that other Asians Americans likewise know how living as an expat can be awesome. I forget that many Asian Americans have not even lived abroad outside, with only cursory travel experiences.
As an AA or western born Asian, your need to stick it to the imperialists is because of the marginality you feel is in the west, where your identity is created. But once you are out in the East, living out there.. FOBS dont care about racism, they care about what you can do. Fighting battles on two fronts — fighting against local competition for jobs or establishing your own business as well as sticking it to the man in the west, when you are struggling to keep things together in the east, its a huge undertaking.
I hope Im wrong. Im not saying in the west, life is any better but at least we are familiar with the set up. I have a friend, just relocated to HK to teach english. He wouldnt settle for a lesser pay but initially found it hard to get a good salary. It turns out in HK they want HK experience only. But sure, if you have will power enough to stick it to make money and give the finger to western hegemony, why not.
Survive, and thrive and be a pioneer overseas. Kudos to anyone who can pull that off. People in our native ethnic lands have no closed the deal on making an assumption about Asian Americans.
We can discuss general trends in Asia and what not, while using our race AND our true loyalties toward Asia to make connections amongst locals.
Videos made by Asian Americans can help others get a sense of individual Asian cities before traveling and moving there. Logistically, we can find strategies how to create more opportunities for ourselves. Yes, I know it is ambitious, but I believe that the possibilties are there.
For too long, the trajectory of an Asian American was a narrow path towards full assimilation. I want to be able to offer others an alternative.
Well, we can make videos showing how Asian Americans communicate seamlessly with whites and other non-Asians. All the while, offering a slightly reduced rate, and we can stake a larger claim in the ESL market as well.
If we can simultaneously establish our efficacy as good native English speakers, while improving our ability to communicate in our native tongue, we can establish an advantage towards Caucasian American ESL teachers. By advantage, I mean that we can explain syntax and semantics in the native language, while establishing credibility as fully capable English speakers — using our degrees, our test scores, and our videos as evidence.
I think a good first battleground to establish this new community would be the ESL world. We should try to take a piece of this pie. I think Eric just proved my point! There is no significant difference in this case, at least not as Eric is describing it. While I was there, I worked as…. I also know several other Asian Americans who have lived abroad and worked for multi-nationals. Yes, I chose to live here. Since you spoke about getting a FOB girlfriend to learn the language, I think you probably chose to live in the U.
These days, lots of rich Asian people choose American citizenship for their children. Lots of rich people from Asia move here too. People who graduate from top universities in China liked the ones I just mentioned are not exactly headed towards poverty. Did you just dismiss the entire experience of people who were born, raised, and reached the top of the society that you want to immigrate to? I live in America for the resources and for what I can learn.
I do not live in America because I like it here. I certainly do not feel that I can achieve the level of acceptance that I had in Asia. But ultimately, the IR disparity is the ultimate indication that I am not welcome. I see the IR disparity as an expression of racism — fostered by hypergamy thank you for the correction, by the way , and the tacit consent that Asian men are not of as high social standing as white men.
Stereotypes are used to obfuscate the fact that White men have a unjustified privilege status within America. Pozhal may be referring to subscribing to the egalitarian ideals we, as Americans, were brought up with — this is probably what he means by Anti-American Imperialism. Although I still believe in egalitarian ideals on a global point of view, and that I do not believe any race to be inherently superior or inferior to another, I do believe that power is a zero-sum item that cannot be negotiated away.
Western men will try to acquire as much status and wealth as possible to make it socially acceptable for them to date women around the world — and will not negotiate this power away. That is why the media refuses to give Asian men any kind of exposure or is scant with its positive coverage. I respect that these sneaky tactics are fair game. Likewise, I also am willing to use any means necessary to curtail Western hegemony, and America, as its instrument. Sure, some minorities may rise with the tides somewhat, but the gap is still significant.
I think Pozhal and Eric are too pessimistic. I one time left my Passport in luggage that was sent back to the states by mistake. Luckily, it just took a couple of calls. Nothing is that easily black and white like that. You being Asian does not mean a white guy has more advantages than you in every way in this country. I can give quite a few advantages minorities have in business. There are programs set up to give minorities, yes including Asians a change at certain fields.
I always thought the interracial discrepancy was overrated. Also your assessment of dating korean men and google any thought that the reason that may be popular is because lots of gay men like K-pop as well? I know quite a few gay men being fans of it. K-Pop has huge gay following. Anyone else want to speak his mind? Are you honestly saying that an Asian American is seen just as American as a White American, and that Asian Ameriacans are regarded as having contributed, as a demographic, as much to the greatness of the U.
You make it seem like slavery still exists in this country. Pozhal and Eric, I would like examples of why you guys are so pessimistic about this country. What has happened to you personally here you want to go back to your own? Not to speak for Bigwowo but Asian Americans are still a relatively a new minority compared to say African Americans. I think we can all agree that African Americans have had a great influence on this country.
The president is Black. Can you name another country where the president is not the same race as the majority? If so, prop 8 would have easily passed and gay marriages would be banned.
That being said I agree with you. This does vary a bit if you are born here vs and immigrant but that being said one would also have to compare Asian immigrants coming here to Asian immigrants going to other Asian countries. That statistic needs to be re-examined due to the fact that: All the great people I ever hear about are White men, and sometimes, White women.
All the great culture we learn about comes almost exclusively from Western Europe. All the Hollywood stars are all White. It took a massive recession, as well as arguably the worst president of all time, in order to get Americans to vote for a Black man. South Korea and Pakistan elected female heads of state, but nobody would uphold either country as being a stronghold of feminism and gender equality.
Where do you have proof the majority of Asians in America are twice as hard working and educated as whites? Again, I think you are stereotyping Asians just like you are generalizing about whites.
What about all those minority programs in business that give chances for minorities to succeed in certain industries? I always thought a problem with a lot of Asians is they stress too much on academics instead of learning how to be social, they put too much on grades.
I have a friend who got horrible grades in school but he did have many friends and knew how to talk to people. Grades and hard work do not equal people skills. But as I also mentioned, we are still a new minority, as generations go on and on, those newer ones will have those much needed people skills. Not true, there are a big number of African American stars as well.
As a matter of fact, if you look up statistics, some of the biggest money making stars are black. Also, Asians are slowly but surely moving in the industry. Ang Lee won 2 Oscars for directing. That is something some of the great white directors have yet to do.
Yes I can use Obama Pozhal wrote: Obama won the popular vote with white voters http: I do know many Asians do immigrate there as well. If it sucks so much, why do they keep going there? I can provide you with links if you want. The idea that Asian Americans are somehow deserving of their lack of power due to bad social skills is just a stereotype, one that you seem to endorse with only a single personal anecdote.
Hard to be social with a group of people who are already expecting you to be awkward and socially incapable. As for Hollywood, who are all these African-American stars who are headlining blockbusters with regularity? Furthermore, most of the major big name Black actors are relatively old and in their 40s, meaning that Hollywood is not that interested in finding the next generation of Denzel Washingtons and Don Cheadles.
Thankfully, a record turnout among Black voters, as well as lopsided victories among other minorities such as Latinos and Asians, as well as among White women and younger White voters, Obama was able to win.
Shut the eff up with up with the criticism for focusing on grades. The reason Asians go for grades is because they go for careers with a large starting salary, which can only be obtained with higher education.
All those stereotypes are!!! Moroboshi — You say slowly Asians are improving in America? Asians have been in fucking America for years. Not fast enough, a something years too slow. If they see any confident Asians many white guys will have such a mindfuck that they will do everything they can to try and oppose it. The only way to change anyone is by external means, aka external leverage and force, and the only way to do that is to bolster Asia, and to create a multipolar world so that others can counter-balance the West.
All moroboshi seems to be saying is that making this choice requires a tradeoff on the social level. Check out this link about an article complaining that many American college grads drop out of the sciences.
Haha, I took alot of science courses back in my day. Lets hit these bastards where it hurts. The only way to make way for change is by applying pressure or force. He is still half. And you know Thailand is a South East Asian country.
Chinese are minority in these two countries. You miss the point entirely. Asians in numbers coming over here are still new compared to African Americans or others. You need to relax if you want to debate. Otherwise no one is going to take you seriously I just mentioned how you can get a high salary if you can show the ability to communicate with others rather than just getting high marks in school.
I know I grew up in a household where only high grades were stressed. There was never any talk about social life, dating or whatever. I believe more Asians should go into riskier industries that may be low paying early but reap higher rewards in the long run i.
How many Asian starving artists do you know? This blog has had many discussions of how Asians need to get into other industries instead of the less risky ones. I remember going into an interview for a job with an asian guy. It was the hardest interview I ever experienced in my life. But Bint, those people you mentioned are still Asian. Majority will vote for people who look like them. Let me bring up another point, Mark Paul Gosselaar is a quarter Asian.
If he ever became president, would you call him the first Asian president? People are judged on how they look. It is rare for a country to elect an official who does not look like majority. Can someone back then believe a black man can be president in the US for two terms? Pozhal, Hollywood is all based on what makes money. If an Asian guy can prove he can make money for the studio, he would be in movies. And what about Dwayne Johnson who is one of the biggest stars in Hollywood.
So there you have it, an Asian Superstar in Hollywood. How about Vin Diesel? Lets not just talk movies how about Music? You got moguls like P Diddy and Jay Z? Go turn on the TV and see how many shows have Asian characters these days compared to how it was 10 years ago. Both Pozhal and Eric have written some of the most racist things on this blog I can ever remember reading basing most of their facts on stereotypes.
And going back to Obama, although he lost 20 percent of the white vote, he still got more white votes. And you mentioned lots of young whites voting for him. If my memory serves me right, never did I mention Samoan and Dwayne Johnson in my comment. But well, did I say Obama is Black?
Are you kidding me? So a website like Racebending is just a massive Asian conspiracy to make it SEEM as if whitewashing the few limited Asian roles is rampant?
Hollywood is NOT all about making money. But of course, Hollywood will still continue to regard those as exceptions while trying to push on us that Shia Labeouf is hot stuff. I love how Moroboshi is trying to convince us that life in America is amazing and we should be satisfied. I also think many of us have good reason to inquire about your identity. Anyways, like Bint mentioned, I am quite busy so I am not able to write as effectively as I did with my initial posts.
A recent movie illustrates this phenomenon better than I could ever explain it. That is your Asian interviewer, Moroboshi. I would go to even say, that is the pinnacle of assimilation that America wants us to strive for.
Basically analogous to certain extremist Asian American women. The source is not all white men, but Western hegemony. Destroying Western hegemony does not mean eradicating the white race.
It only means ensuring global society achieves an egalitarian standing. I see no moral objection to that. How dare you accuse me of being a racist, you imbecile. I speak out against Western domination of the world, and the IR disparity as an expression of racism.
You think its racist to state the white men should not have all the power? And that we should work against it? Your whole premise lies in the fact that you are trying to convince Asian Am males that life is better in the USA, whereas the whole reason this podcast exists on IR is to acertain that it is not. Though I am passionate about my position, I want to offer AAs an opportunity to explore the possibility of living comfortably abroad, or as a supranational — because the opportunity to do so is out there.
Moroboshi, you may never have lived abroad — and you speak with extremely narrow perspective, but as someone who has lived abroad and thrived there, I would invite others to explore that possibility as well.
And, as for calling me racist, I welcome anyone to participate as long as they are willing to work toward our interests. This is a very good point that all Asian American men should be aware of. Anxiety and worry follow. Consider it as real. BigWowo — Indeed, you are right in wondering about whether life abroad actually is better. I think it will be definitely important to convey this, but based on personal experience I know it exists and am confident that those who seek will find. First off, lets just say with regards to life in Asia… with race not being an issue in dating, would you say that having no IR disparity exist, and the entire population as possible dating options available — would that be something you would like to have in your life?
Are you just pulling Erics leg? Nobody is saying that we need to openly renounce America as a result. All the suggestions towards creating a supra-national AA identity are constructive and legitimate. Sure, the deep motivation to overturn Western hegemony may be there, and break the IR disparity, but you can hide that deep in your heart and act. Meanwhile, many Asian Americans staying in America will be helping on the domestic front.
With this path there is resistance and there is purpose towards fighting against our obstacles, although we may never well see enough change in our life —- but there is also opportunities to live better and amazing lives, without risk to your identity and reputation.
Any organization created to support Asian Americans and the local Asian countries they reside in will be friendly and have a positive face. My conscience is clean. Yes, talent drain — exactly. We need to combine internal pressure with a greater international external force to change American society. Without Asia, we are powerless. But we must offer Asia our talents if we want to be embedded in its society. If anyone or any group is unhappy with their return, then of course, they will seek out a better deal wherever that deal is available to them.
But what Eric seems to be suggesting is trying to control or affect a market through ideology rather than profit. If Asian Americans can find sweetheart deals and better returns in Asia, then believe me, they will already be there exploiting them right now!
No great master plan is needed. But it happens naturally in following the path of greatest opportunity. And that will lead to whoever is offering the best deal at the time. It might not all have to do with money. What you might not realize is that there is already a lot talent lost, a lot of it is which is irreplaceable. The problem is that because of the institutionalized racism in place, the people in power thinks that either the talent lost is easily replaceable or even worse, not even worth keeping.
Right now, the grass is certainly greener on the other side, especially in HK in the last 5 years. But the deal is always the deal. What makes you know that the same talent will never return, no matter what deal they are eventually offered? But why I am saying is that if things are better in Hong Kong, then AAs in certain industries will go there. That is how a market works. If somehow things are not better… then conversely no amount of planning will get anybody to go there.
I think you owe us a few details about how you thrived, what business you ran, how many employees you hired and how easy it was to run your business, how many children you raised in Asia, how you dealt with healthcare and social security, how much business you did and how much product you sold, your social networks, etc. King is African American by the way. I have a fairly decent knowledge of the stereotypes imposed upon AAs by media and society. And no, thinking a free market would actually fix this issue would be the same as suggesting that communism can solve the problem.
In an ideal and theoritical world, maybe. But not in the current world where companies in the states where the best decisions are not made and most are still more interested in preserving the existing power structures than to try to maximise their potential.
Yes, correct, I am here. Getting my education and using the resources of the USA to further myself. In the future I intend to move to Asia. Im going to repost something I wrote before:. I do believe that power is a zero-sum item that cannot be negotiated away. Yes King, I understand, but despite your efforts you have not experienced the visceral experience of being Asian American in Asia. Likewise, I could not ever replicate the experience you might potentially have in places like St.
Martin, or the Dominican Republic cultures I also find very interesting, I might add. I appreciated your earlier contributions, but the facts are that the IR disparity is a zero-sum, have vs. That might just require the creation of a supra-national identity, as an alternative. Yeah, I saw that the first time you posted it. I think King has a great understanding of Asian American issues—he knows the history of Asian America better than the vast majority of actual Asian Americans.
His feelings on this are more similar to most of the Asian Americans on this site than to your feelings. I just read the article. In other words, Eric, you may think you can thrive. You may take certain American cultural habits for granted. Well, Eric, there are, of course, two values.
One is in knowing and the other is in not knowing. One is in being familiar, and the other is in being unfamiliar. One is from a view inside and the other is from a view outside. My contributions have been that of providing the value of an outside perspective.
And I hope that there is still some value in that. As for the disparity, I have myself been fighting this battle wherever I have come in contact with it. My statements are not the result of not connecting the dots. All I am doing is asking honest questions and applying simple logic to what you are saying.
I have never said that Asians should not go to school in the US and then go to Asia and conduct commerce. All I have said is that this is clearly already being done. That it has been written about for decades now. That it happens on a case by case basis, and that it is subject to market forces that cannot be easily predicted, planned, or controlled.
It is unfortunate that some cannot see beyond the emotional content of my words, to the underlying message. Read my first 10 posts. Eric, Im saying that some people are already doing what you are suggesting — The ones for whom it makes sense to do this. But how about effecting media and perceptions in THIS county today… something short of attempting to tip the entire world power structure to improve a dating imbalance?
Whether life in Asia for Asian Americans is better? Everyone is different after all. If society is comfortable with institutionalized racism and IR disparity, with stereotypes used to sow mass confusion, then anything is possible.
If I came up with a plan to stop racism against Blacks by getting an American education, then moving to Lagos Nigeria. Where we could help enrich Africa in order to stop racism in America, you would not have to be African-American judge that my plan was a bit of a long shot. Sure, Asian Americans will seek to assimilate, so long as they can be reliably assured that they will be treated equally as White Americans. So why should we have to give up our heritage for the oh-so-glorious opportunity to be 2nd tier White people?
The African American experience is not the Asian American experience, African-Americans historically had it much worse — they were forcibly detached from Africa and have no connection culturally to it.
A domestic civil rights movement was made possible through sheer number and the fact that there was no possibility of a mother country to fall back to, so people had to fight to establish a life here. Also moving back to Africa was not feasible given the discrepancy in living standards between Africa and America. After China is done modernizing Africa, African-Americans may very well get the chance to do something analogous in Africa if they so choose.
But Asia is developed and has some economic opportunities. Whatever, BigWowo, in terms of convincing you whether Asia is better or not, I guess you should just go and find out for yourself. Me, I like Asia and intend to move did I mention I got 3 numbers in 4 days during a trip? Anyways, to each his own. Happy July 4th everybody.
Anyone watch schoolhouse rock before as a kid? And the emperor is where he is because of his attempts to dominate the world stage, including attempting to control and pacify Asia. One of the commentators from the Shanghai Expat Board said this, that sums up as to why America has this pervasive division of races:.
You can do that here in the states easily. The difficult part is getting them to respond and go out with you. Out of those 3 numbers, how many of those you 1.
One area is devoid of negative connotations, the other one is. And Hong Kong is only one city, every place has a different context. In fact, the biggest lesson I learned was that: I guess for me and many Asian guys I know who have girlfriends or are married, the US is a pretty good place for them. You think African Americans have positive stereotypes? It took years and years for of negative stereotyping. Then you had free love and it became positive. Getting numbers means shit.
The only people who make a big deal out if it are those who never ask women out or those trying to sell PUA products. And I also find it very insulting when you say King would not understand us being black.
If anything, a black person would understand probably better than anyone how it is to be stereotyped. Everyone is different in some way, ie Fat, Skinny, Rich, Poor, grew up with good or shitty parents. Which means different experiences. As I said, attraction is contextual.
His view is do nothing. Your view is do nothing. You offer nothing; no explanation, no solution… nothing. The whole point is to establish leverage to affect change. Linking ourselves to a rising economic power would allow Asian Americans to have that leverage. Internally, we do not have numbers, and therefore, for decades we have not been able to create change.
Also some voices who, racial or otherwise, have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, are not surprisingly the greatest critics. I receive very little benefit from sharing positive experiences in Asia and telling about them. People pose personal attacks, but I have yet to hear a single refutation about my main message. But I can see this conversation is going nowhere. Perhaps it was my own inflamed, emotion-injected language, which I willingly put forward here, that clouded others from seeing the validity of my initial posts.
But I think that there is an explanation for the IR disparity, and there is a solution — and even if it is just chiseling away at a mountain of injustice a la Western geopolitical dominance , the simple act of chipping away is in itself justifiable and empowering. There is an explanation, and there is something we can all do about it.
Do not believe the detractors who would like to fill your minds with self doubt and self criticism, to maintain the status quo. There is a better world out there, that of which life in America simply cannot compare to. Wow, 7 different posts on one thread in a roll.
Ever think the reason you suck with women in the states is cause you have the symptoms of someone suffering from OCD? Although I agree there is racism, I think what hurts us is the unintentional racism other than the blatant KKK guy who some of you are talking about.
Any reason you are ignoring requests for a Podcast? May be more civil than just anonymously posting on a message board. A guy who posts 7 times in a row always needs to get the last word in. Moroboshi has also provided another part of truth to IR disparity. If you two work out together: Over the years, withstanding tight political storms, fighting off rampant corruption, harnessing few resources, teaming up with patriotic players, he is one of them, one of proud members of Asian Elites — Lee Kuan Yew, the founding father of Singapore.
Some people hate him viscerally, especially younger generation. Some people love him unconditionally. His political stand makes sure that Singapore will be relevant to the Asia rise. He would read a poem or a book for his dying wife every night. In contrast, there are some trash inevitably generated along the way like this. But I do remember reading somewhere.
Or how about the one who sold plastics and dropped out of his youthful education and becomes one of the World most powerful Asian man alive? Some Asian men are already doing that. If Economy is the center of gravity, the gravity was indeed moving.
I also do have my pet peeves about personal styling. The most intriguing aspect of those Asians from China and some AA is their freaking haircut. Still media is still blameworthy in my observation. Although I have many issues with media swirling in my mind, here is not the time I feel like writing off.
But here is an interesting point of view from a Black woman whose observation also seems legitimate in our discussion here. I feel pity for that douchebag.
Moroboshi, if you get what you want, then Asian men who want to establish a life in Asia will be forced to go it alone — no support, no networking opportunities, no faction to create leverage for social change.
And to what avail? Meanwhile, ideas such as creating online videos describing and assessing individual cities — in terms of life, opportunities, etc. Ideas like breaking into the ESL market — as allowing for more AA to get good salaries abroad would allow more Asian-Americans to be exposed to Asia, again — lost in your empty banter.
So go ahead and attack me personally, because I post anonymously because I know people like yourself, assuming you even care about AA as a whole, assuming you are even Asian, are bound to criticize.
Western hegemony is the ultimate cause. The enemy has been identified, and the solutions have been proposed. And hopefully, this will stay with some even after both our names and this entire thread is forgotten. In my mind, can only name the AA HK celebs. Re the dating , I think any girl worth anything ought to like you for your looks, personality, ability and potential , though the bamboo ceiling does indeed affect the way Asian males are perceived but being blanked by Asian women is not a sole reason to relocate to Asia, IMO similarly, neither is mass assimilation — ie dating white black or brown women, a good enough reason and denial of racism a good enough reason to stay in the US.
For me, relocating overseas is because you want to and genuine see good reason for you, not because of external pressures, whether its stereotypes here or there. Anything else, wealth success and a new kind of Asian pride is just icing on the cake.
Either way, I can respect Eric for walking the walk and hope he has major success with it. Do you even read your posts? While no doubt one often has to look deeper to see if numbers presented paint an accurate picture. But one could also say most Asian have families have been in the US for a shorter time than the average white family.
I would think if you look at most countries the populations that are a majority that have been there the longer probably have built up more wealth than those who have not there are some counter examples, maybe Malaysia but I would bet it would be true in most cases.
How many business are passed down from father to son or daughter? It would go to reason then those people earn more. Many famous business man had a head start because of their fathers were already in the business, Murdoch, Branson, Trump. As for leadership the Asian population is 3. The number of Asian in congress th?
I have not seen the numbers for th but I think maybe even more. So not terribly out of line. Again one has to look at how long the avg Asian family has been here. I would bet a good portion of politicians became politicians cause their family was in politics. Bush, Gore, Kennedy, Daley, etc. BigWoWo, moroboshi, myself, most others here would say there is discrimination, Asian men do get some shit Hollywood stereotypes, and IR, other problems.
That being said it is still pretty good for most Asian and saying there is some super oppression is just not supported by the facts. The prevalent American myth is that anybody who works hard and has talent can make it. But even animals have an innate sense of fairness.
You ever see that video of the two monkeys who are given different treats for doing the exact same thing? The monkey who gets the worse reward starts going berserk because she can see that she is being treated unfairly.
Are some Asian Americans better off in America than in Asia, in absolute wealth terms? Also, how is Canada? Is it better than the US? I mean agreeing with the idea that Asians are not treated fairly in the US and should go move to Asian countries where things will be more fair because of the color of our skin.
I never said that all Asian Americans should go to Asia. I said that they should work to appreciate their Asian heritage and connections more. For some, that may lead them to Asia. An example of what some Caucasian expats were able to do in Kunming, China. We can draw upon this example for ideas that we can similarly do as Asian Americans:. There is no reason to hide or shun our American nature.
We should use whatever ability and experience we have, from whatever source, to come up with ideas we can use to further our own interests. Of course, we should never stop coming up with new ideas as well.
I have Asian friends who wanted to teach English in China but were rejected because they want to hire white teachers. You make it seem like those places are a Utopia for Asians when Asian Americans are looked down upon in those countries. Pozhal, I know quite a few Asians w white partners who are making sure their kids learn their language. I think you are preaching to the choir here when saying asian Americans need to be more in tuned w their heritage. I think there are more who do than not.
I can only speak from my experience, but in Korea, the better English academies tend to prefer Korean Americans because of their bilingual or semi-bilingual abilities. If those children from asians… paired with whites, learn the culture but do not prioritize the Asian economy and Asian society, they are absolutely no help either.
Preaching to the choir? We should learn from the successes of foreign expats, yes. But the focus should always be improving the societies we are trying to make a connection with.
No, that guy is a success because he brings soft managerial touch to his business. Something an Asian American can bring to Asia as well. I see a growing number of Korean American guys dating Asian women besides their own because of this reason. I did come across 2 Korean American dudes who graduated from the Ivy Leagues and their girlfriends came straight out of Korea, because they wanted to date their own kind. I think the situation with Korean Americans is a bit skewered due to the large number of KA adoptees.
Most of the females probably end up with white men. And those like Moroboshi, self haters like Chr, and others like them— are still mired in a sycophant and self-critical past that would be better off forgotten, discarded. Back to the Motherland! As the IR issue has been repeatedly addressed on this site, there seems to be 3 issues at heart for Asian men. None of this matter, if Asian dudes would accept the situation and find other meaningful things in life to care about.
Just look at the evolution of the female beauty standard in America in the 20th century. On or close to Schedule. People Mountain, People Sea. Romance of the Chinese man. Secrets of a World Traveller. So your husband is Squirrels of a Feather. Thoughts of a 1. When West Dates East. Wrapped in a Chinese Leaf.
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